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Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
158
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Posted - 2015.07.28 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Shrike Crendraven wrote:I am well aware that as new player i know little about the current balance, but, for me, the battleship is the most disappoint ship type in eve.
Starting in the common sense area(or as much common sense as we can predict the technology in 1000s years):
Why are battleship so big with so few tech systems onboard?
Given a cruiser can have X slots, a battleship that is 5x the size (or more), should have slightly more equipment slots than the "30% more than cruiser"....
Difference in armor, hull, shield is not staggering either. Not to mention some of the t3 cruiser can get several times over effectiove hitpoints of a battleship.
Weapons. Are a.... Sad joke? Given Eve balance, Han Solo could have solo'd (har har) the imperial dreadnought/battleship instead of running away from it.
I know that precariously constructed and heavily patched balance is hard to keep - but please for the love of god give each battleship 5ish more high-slots (WAIT!) that can fit only *small* guns. So it adds very little to the effective high end pve/pvp dmg, BUT fixes the horrible unfairness of frig/destroyer/cruiser vs battleship fights.
Can u imagine the engineers of current battleships - while designing its battle potential.
- "So this frigate goes under our guns and slowly kills us, while keeping us unable to move fast or jump...."
- "And it slowly kills us? yes, thats the plan, junior! Now go fetch those blueprints to the factory!"
Utility slots - I guess that more than half a kilometer of high tech ship is hardly enough space to fit some (obvious?!) electronic warfare toys.... I mean, really, every single one should have a tractor beam, target painter, scrambler and a web. Dedicated slots, or just built in t2ish version(the hull has requirements, add more requirements to fly it)
Yes i know, balance. You put yourself in a tough position, and its very hard to fix battleships without completely destroying the "game-of-cruisers".
Increase the price, 5times, 10 times... Add some little gun slots, give each BS 2-3 more utility slots. Please. No. No. No. I really wish these "give BS more slots for SMALL guns" threads would stop popping up. They would break any semblance of balance. Why fly any other ship, when I can put small and large turrets/launchers on my ship, basically making it so it never needs support. Then you go on about adding more utility slots on top of that... your joking/high/drunk right? So my RHML typhoon FI with 2 heavy neuts, mjd, 1200dps and 130k EHP is now going to add on RLML, and some smartbombs, nos, and more neuts? I can alternate between RLML and RHML while one is on reload. Insta-cap any ship except another BS, and kill any frig/cruiser/bc that gets close. And then, if i cant catch or kill you, I can mjd away. In what way does this sound balanced to you?
Sounds balanced to me but hell what do i know I'm tearing up the verse in a Svipul.
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:24:58 -
[2] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:somebody test this with me. i wont believe it till i see it.
frig vs bs come on
ill pay for ur frig i tested it against a raven in my vengeance, the raven couldnt kill me but i also couldnt break the raven, i held it pointed for a long time
How was the Raven fit? What missiles was he firing? Did you kill all of his drones? Was he managing his drones well if you were killing them?
Lots to factor in. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 12:40:20 -
[3] - Quote
One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Only way i could see it happening would be if the T1 BS in question had no web/heavy neut. That way you could either hug it tight with an active tanked brawler or kite it assuming the BS had short ranged weaponry.
Both scenarios require bad fits on the Battleships side with no appreciation for covering your weaknesses. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:12:23 -
[5] - Quote
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. . That is also an insanely specialized fit.
Honestly i wish it was specialised but its not. Sadly its not its just a variant of the old pre-nerf fit everyone used with a Aux power core to make it fit. Check my killboard if you want to check it. Anyway going off topic but other T3D active fits are just as dangerous to a BS with only one utility neut and not enough webs to make main guns apply well. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
158
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:25:44 -
[6] - Quote
I am just speaking worst case scenario which is important. Remove links and its still a huge threat, remove implants/drugs and your looking at ISK poor or new pvpers which will never be an issue for a competent BS pilot. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:33:26 -
[7] - Quote
When you factor in a small cap boosters reload time as well as a NOS it is more than reasonable to say that a T3D can pin a BS with only one heavy neut for a very long time. Like you say it depends entirely on the amount of damage you are taking and thus the battleship you are up against.
Edit: Because you edited your argument. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:45:02 -
[8] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. The links and sig reduction would be cause of concern.. but i mean what can really kill a linked, HG crystal, BP'd anything without a blob? Id consider fighting you in my application fit typhoon.. but id be more confident in my FI phoon. But thats cause i gets 2 neuts :) Ive killed linked stuff before, but you throw in the best of the best at a fit, its going to be monsterous regardless of what it is. Hell i see dead terrorist bads fly around in linked breachers all the time. Although i do enjoy shooting their links when they are in the middle of a fight. Using the holy grail of cancer fits doesnt mean BS are weak either. No offense ofc. But you are probably using svipul because its still broken and continues to scale exceedingly well with links, crystals, drugs.
I was merely pointing out a new concern for the solo BS pilot who rely on just one Heavy neut. I also never said BS were weak as a result of this I was simply pointing out an issue they face in the current meta.
Only just started flying Svipuls at the start of this month and have been enjoying it thus far (hard not to with how OP they are).
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Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:06:07 -
[9] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Switch Savage wrote:When you factor in a small cap boosters reload time as well as a NOS it is more than reasonable to say that a T3D can pin a BS with only one heavy neut for a very long time. Like you say it depends entirely on the amount of damage you are taking and thus the battleship you are up against.
Edit: Because you edited your argument. well, we're talking about a BS that can apply no damage to a t3d, so something with long range weaps, no web, no missiles, no drones... why would anyone go solo in something like that a frig would be just as capable at pinning down such a bs
Agree on all points but I think the rise of T3Ds in the current meta does hurt solo BS to a greater extent than T2 Frigs. The huge resist profiles, excellent active tanks and low sigs/solid speeds pose a far greater threat to a solo BS pilot than any T1 or T2 frig ever could. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:10:12 -
[10] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Switch Savage wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Switch Savage wrote:One legit concern for the solo BS pilot that only sports one heavy neut, is cap injected active tanked T3D. I cant think of a single BS in the game bar a Vindicator that could kill my standard Svipul fit once i have a tight orbit. Even in a straight T2 fit with crystals/links/pill its got 37 sig and a 600+ dps tank as well as the AB/Nos.
That is an absolute nightmare to shake off in a BS if you only have one neut. The links and sig reduction would be cause of concern.. but i mean what can really kill a linked, HG crystal, BP'd anything without a blob? Id consider fighting you in my application fit typhoon.. but id be more confident in my FI phoon. But thats cause i gets 2 neuts :) Ive killed linked stuff before, but you throw in the best of the best at a fit, its going to be monsterous regardless of what it is. Hell i see dead terrorist bads fly around in linked breachers all the time. Although i do enjoy shooting their links when they are in the middle of a fight. Using the holy grail of cancer fits doesnt mean BS are weak either. No offense ofc. But you are probably using svipul because its still broken and continues to scale exceedingly well with links, crystals, drugs. I was merely pointing out a new concern for the solo BS pilot who rely on just one Heavy neut. I also never said BS were weak as a result of this I was simply pointing out an issue they face in the current meta. Only just started flying Svipuls at the start of this month and have been enjoying it thus far (hard not to with how OP they are). Fair enough. However, its not only a solo BS issue. That same svipul would also ruin most BC, cruisers, destroyers and other frigs/t3ds in solo scenarios as well.
Agreed my point being its another thing to ensure your BS is capable of dealing with when undocking with no support. Even in the best case scenario they can be tricky blighters to drop quickly if they are fit and flown well. Imo the addition of them into the meta poses one of the greatest threats to solo BS pvp thus far in New Eden. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
160
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:43:58 -
[11] - Quote
Hah I have to agree there i guess, that's quite a funny way to look at it. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
161
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 15:34:40 -
[12] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Switch Savage wrote: Imo the addition of them into the meta poses one of the greatest threats to solo BS pvp thus far in New Eden. That arguments come up before. Until the addition of the MJD you could kite Heavy neuts and webs.
Well technically you still can :p. You just run the risk of them sailing off into the sunset like the beautiful over sized hulks of metal they are. |
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